Plant Medicine Felt Like the End. It Wasn’t.

Episode Summary: 

Do you remember the interview with psychic medium Renea Adele — where a plant medicine experience revealed her gifts? That conversation became the most downloaded episode of Alchemy with Nancy. And she’s back. 🙌

In this episode, Renea shares how her own journey with plant medicine led her to become a plant medicine integration coach. We talk about how these experiences can surface beliefs and blocks we don’t even realize we’re carrying, what healing really looks like (spoiler: it’s not always what you expect), and why integration after the journey is just as important as the journey itself.

Episode Highlights:

• How her plant medicine experience shifted her path and revealed new gifts
• The surprising fears and beliefs that surfaced during her first journey
• Why “healing” doesn’t always look the way we think it will
• The role of integration — and why it matters as much as the journey itself

Links & Extras:

🎙️ Renea’s cousin’s podcast: Team Never Quit

📚 Books mentioned in this episode:
-Consciousness Medicine by Francoise Bourzat

-How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan 

Transcript

Nancy (00:53.144)
Hey everyone, I am so excited to be sitting down again today with Renea Adell, whose last episode has been the most downloaded episode on the podcast so far. Renea is an intuitive psycho spiritual counselor and a psychedelic integration coach. She works closely with the military community, veterans, first responders, and people in recovery, supporting their healing journeys with plant medicines such as Ibogaine,

5-Meodmt, psilocybin, and ayahuasca. She has a deep passion for helping people overcome limiting beliefs, and through her own profound experiences with plant medicine, she now helps others move through obstacles and discover new pathways to healing. Thank you so much for being here again with me today, Renee.

Renea (01:46.928)
Thank you. I know that was like a mouthful to say.

Nancy (01:49.678)
Well, to get started, because I'm sure that there are people listening that didn't hear the first episode, can you share a little bit about how you got into plant medicine? Because I'm sure the journey to you becoming a plant medicine integration coach was not linear.

Renea (01:59.771)
Mm-hmm.

Renea (02:15.82)
my gosh, like this was not even in my realm of thinking or understanding over four years ago. How I arrived to the medicine, which that is what I call it, because it is, it is a medicine. I have a cousin, well, his wife is my actual blood-related cousin, but in our family, once you're in, it's like, he's my cousin too.

you know, he is a Navy seal and, he experienced a lot of, physical trauma, you know, you know, what comes with that when they come home, you know, some TBI type situation of things. And, so how it was introduced was that he was going through this.

treatment. It was posed to me as a brain treatment, right? And a different kind of brain treatment, a natural brain treatment, right? So I didn't even hear the words plant medicine for a while. And then it was described to me as it was this plant medicine. It was kind of confusing for me at first, because I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. So we're treating maybe some substance abuse.

issues or emotional trauma, physical trauma with drugs. Like I was just so, it just sounded so just weird to me, you know? But once I heard what it was and I started to kind of look into it and do research, it just started popping up everywhere.

And I really feel that a lot of the veteran community is at the forefront of these studies and kind of sharing their testimonies because honestly, I feel like society and all of us see them as they don't BS. Like if you know a lot of these guys, you know, special forces or women and stuff that are in military or first responders, they don't really BS. And these guys,

Renea (04:34.831)
you know, are also seen as heroes in a lot of aspects. You know what I mean? And when we see them healing, it really makes us kind of pay attention because we know a lot of their stuff, it can run really deep. And so if we're seeing a huge change in someone, and especially if it's in our military who are looked at as, you know, very like,

Nancy (04:39.405)
for sure.

Renea (05:04.163)
We can trust what they're saying a lot of the time, you know, for a lot of people, especially if have family members that are in the military and things of that nature. And we all want them to be rehabilitated in some way or taken care of in some way. So I feel like they're at the forefront because if it was not working for them, they would not be talking about it. They would not, well, at least for the ones that I know that are in special forces, my cousin included, like they would not sit there and be us and say this worked if it didn't work.

Nancy (05:24.749)
Alright.

Renea (05:33.763)
Like they're just not gonna beat around the bush. But whenever I visually saw how it can help with addictions, how it can help with going from not wanting to be alive to loving life, you know, it's just kind of undeniable. And then it just started to kind of work with me in the sense of these are natural, you know, medicines that are on the earth. It's not.

created, it's created by creation, you know, if you want to say it's created by God in my opinion. So I had to do a lot of reworking of understanding, you know, what it was. so how, long story short, how it came about is my cousin came back from the treatment and there was a really big change in a lot of...

how he was feeling, how he was moving through life, his decisions, and again, his story is very public. so when that happened, I started to kind of have a thought of, you know, would I do something like this? know, would I, could this help me? I was curious. It sparked this curiosity in me because there were a lot of things that I was struggling with. Whereas in

and maybe someone on the outside looking in would not have really known those things, you know? But I did and so I was like, I'm curious, like yeah, I mean if the opportunity arose, like yeah, I would do it, I could do it, you know? And then the opportunity arose and it was kind of like, hey, there's an opportunity for you to go and do this, do you wanna go and do it? Like literally a few days before. And for whatever reason, I...

was like, okay, you know, but my cousin who's like a sister to me as well, she was gonna do it too. So we kind of like, we're in it together. So I was like, okay. She was like, if you do it, I'll do it. And I'm like, if you do it, I'll do it. So that was kind of that way. so, you know, that's kind of how it happened. That's how I arrived to it. But I really had no prior integration whatsoever. Like no.

Nancy (07:46.615)
Hahaha

Renea (07:58.513)
not like how I work with people now. did not, I mean, I literally talked to who I call my Yoda now on the way to go do it. Like, so I didn't have any, you know what, for me, I think that's probably that that's how that how I needed to arrive to it. But I did walk up to it thinking like, what in the actual F am I doing here? Like, what am I doing?

you know, so many different thoughts. I, so anyway, that's kind of, that's how I arrived.

Nancy (08:30.615)
So once you actually did arrive and you got to the place where you were going to be experiencing plant medicine, what happened that?

Renea (08:35.468)
Hmm.

Renea (08:40.685)
Oh my gosh. So I was cold at the medicine that I would be doing, which it was 5-Me-O DMT, and on the journey there, was having an explanation of what it may feel like. Very condensed, and I give it to my coach and again, my Yoda, Cynthia.

for really explaining very well in a very short amount of time, which usually, ideally, you start integration like a month prior. She was explaining to me this, that it was gonna be very quick. What appealed to me is that this medicine can be very quick. It can last maybe 10 minutes to 30 minutes tops. It's not like the one I began.

which is a very, very long lasting medicine. And for whatever reason for me, that just that appealed to me. And typically the people I work with now, they go through Ibogaine and then after that they go through 5-Me-O, but this is just kind of how it was for me. And so on the way there, she was kind of explaining, you know, how it may feel just all about kind of intention and, you know, going into it. So I really felt like, okay, I can do this. Like I can.

totally do this. can just let go, can relax and just kind of see what happens. I was thinking about intentions when I arrived, you know, we sat around a fireside and kind of wrote down the things that I want to release and rid myself of and then kind of the things that I would like to bring into my life, you know, didn't have very long to think about that. But for me,

you know, as someone who would like study for exams like the night before or right before, you know, I guess that just worked in my pattern of things. I was able to do that and

Renea (10:47.498)
Before we went into it, I started to get very, very nervous. Very nervous. My husband, obviously, he was not with me. My children weren't at home. There were a lot of things. And now I understand how this medicine works. These medicines start working even before you ingest it. I really do believe that. Things start coming up before you even take it.

You know, of course our brain starts going through the Rolodex of trying to figure out what's going on, especially if it's not something that you've done. And I started to get very, very nervous. And, you know, but it was in a very peaceful setting with a doctor with, you know, it was perfect case scenario, right? But there was so many things happening internally. I don't know where you want me to go with it from there, but.

Nancy (11:43.083)
Yeah, so after you took the medicine, what was your experience while taking it?

Renea (11:51.116)
Okay, well, as I was going into the journey, you know, with 5-MEO DMT, you inhale it through the mouth. So it is kind of like, and I have never been, you know, I wasn't a smoker. didn't even know how to inhale through my mouth. know, that's one thing that we do work with people before they go into these medicines about how it's given, how it's so you can kind of.

practice with your breathing and all of that stuff. for me, that was the first thing for me, like, my gosh, I don't even know how to inhale or breathe, right? But they were very, very caring and explained things really well. And I was sitting there and I, you know, inhaled through the mouth. with these med, with this medicine in particular, it is,

very much for a lot of people more of a feeling. And it is a feeling, is, it can dissolve this usual sense of self. So as I was inhaling it, I was still able to know, I'm Renee, I'm still thinking, but I still kind of wanted to know what was going on, right? And this is where I understand now where it was that, this sense of control.

right, this sense of control. There was a lot of things coming up from my subconscious as like, for instance, I all of a sudden started to kind of feel like my heart was beating so fast. I felt like, oh my gosh, this medicine isn't for me. I, you know, oh, I'm going to have a heart attack. And now I understand these are just things coming up with the subconscious because obviously I was not having a heart attack, you know, but I will say that when I was one, my dad at 34 passed from a massive heart attack.

And I was told ever since then by my mom, of course, you need to be really careful with your health. The doctors told me that your dad had the heart of a 70-something-year-old at 34, and so you and your sister really need to take care of it. So there were a lot of things that were just really starting to come up that I never put together. I never thought that I was afraid of dying young.

Renea (14:12.38)
I didn't even think I was afraid of dying. I didn't think I was afraid of having a heart attack. I didn't, but I started to almost, I started to call out for my dad who I had never met. He died when I was one and I asked him to keep my heart beating. asked him, so it was, you know, all of these things about this sense of self that I didn't even understand that I had about myself started to come up.

And I realized all of the things I was doing to try and combat that, you know, I was in the fitness industry for over 15 years. I mean, I had my own studio, I was training, I've been in magazines, I've done this, I've competed, all these things. And it was all coming together of like, you have been afraid of having a heart attack and dying at a young age because your dad, like, so it was like all of these programs or these patterns of thought that I did not know were there started to come up.

totally not what I thought, like what I wrote on my paper that I wanted to release, right? It was like something totally different. But then when I was starting to get really scared, you the doctor, they really were great about just, you know, kind of having me hone in on my breath and just kind of letting go, just releasing at a really hard time releasing, because I wanted that sense of control.

Nancy (15:16.769)
you

Renea (15:36.338)
you know, and that's a lot of what this medicine does. It helps you release this false sense of control of ego that really you think is protecting you and it's not. And so when I finally let go is when I just really fell into it. and there's a lot with that after that first moments of like, my gosh, this is not for me. And, but yeah, it's,

There's more.

Nancy (16:07.521)
Yeah, so tell us, so what happened when you fell into it? want to, I'd love to hear what happened once you relinquished control and just let, you know, the medicine do its job.

Renea (16:15.431)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So when I finally let go, again, I, I felt that I, my physical body had basically dissolved. was a very odd feeling for me, but I was still able to hear myself think. And I remember thinking, I'm still Renee. so I'm Renee, but I'm not Renee. I'm still Renee.

And I had this sense of like, my gosh, we do go on. You know, I don't know why, but I was putting these things like, so it's true. We do go on beyond the body. I don't just exist in the body. I exist out of the body. I was having all of these things while in the same moment hearing every little creak.

in nature, hearing every little, you know, seeing a few colors of vibration kind of started out black and white, then it kind of got to some more colors. But while this was happening, I was hearing myself like, you're Renee. I'm here. I'm still here. You know, so it was all of these things. And and again, this seems like it's linear, like it's it's a time like, this is a time thing. But it's so hard to explain that it was just very quick, but also felt

very slow at the same time. when I was, you know, experiencing that like, I'm still Renee, but I'm not Renee, because I didn't feel like I had a body. You know, I kind of started again to kind of, what helped me kind of relax was this understanding of, okay, we do go on.

there is a God or there is something beyond this. Like, my gosh, like I, I, what I believed was right or whatever it was right. And so then I fell into this extremely bright light, bright, bright light. mean, even if I had my eye mask off, I wouldn't have seen what was in front of me because everything was just exceptionally bright white light. And I felt and heard,

Renea (18:39.32)
over my head this sound and a jingle of a collar. And I'm telling you this is, it was real. was real. mean, it was so real and I immediately knew it was my dog that I had from kindergarten until 12th grade. And I felt

Like I was in this huge field with this huge, mean enormously bright light with this dog going over me. I can feel his breath. I could hear the jingle and immediately I relaxed. There's so much in this too, where when you hear people talk about 5-Me-O-DNT and then you hear someone explain in your death experience, they sound very similar. And it's because there is this

this molecule, this hormone that is released right before you die and it mimics that, right? So I wasn't actually dying, but it's the same hormone or molecule, I don't know if I'm saying that right, that is released when you do 5-MeO DMT. So I realize now looking forward and what Spirit has taught me is, you know, when we are going through those processes, people or animals or things of that nature show up to help your nervous system relax.

Because when I felt my dog with me, and I mean felt his breath on my face, I totally relaxed. And then the journey just went further with that. Not to say this was all peaceful for me. For a lot of people, this is a hugely peaceful experience from start to finish. It wasn't that way for me. I struggled in the beginning calling out for my dad, helped my heart keep beating, and then all of a sudden.

It was like, relaxed, my dog showed up, this bright light, and then after that, journey started. I, well, not started, just continued. So I immediately relaxed, and then all of the sudden, I saw myself in my bathroom at home. And I'm telling you, I was there. Like you are consciously, I mean, I was there.

Renea (21:03.438)
I was throwing up in my toilet and I was hearing my husband so clearly that I literally thought he traveled to where I was and was talking to me in my ear on more than one occasion. I was throwing up in my toilet and I kept saying, I hate throwing up. I just don't want to throw up, but I need to throw up because I hate it. I hate throwing up. I don't want to throw up, but I need to throw up because I hate it.

And my husband was telling me, just throw it up, Nay, just throw it up, just throw it up. And I'm like, but I hate throwing up. And he's like, just throw it up, just throw it up. And so I, I was doing that. And while I was doing that, I all of a sudden saw a visual of my grandfather who I've never met. He died before I was born. And he was a young man standing against a

what looked like a barn or a cotton gin, which is interesting because there was one right behind their house. And he was a young man with a hat on. Now I've seen, now, I mean, it was so clearly him. He was an extreme alcoholic, abusive to my grandmother, to his children. And then he was staring at me from leaning against this post.

And he told me, you're throwing it up for me because I could not do it and you're doing it. You're throwing it up. You're throwing it up for us. You're throwing it up for you. You're throwing it up for your son. Then all of a sudden it's like a split screen happened and I see my dad who died at one. And actually I didn't see him. I saw my grandmother, but I didn't see my dad, which at that time I was so sad because I've always wanted to.

see him besides in a picture, but I felt him. I could feel his hair. I could feel his face. And for whatever reason, I wasn't supposed to see him in the way that I saw my grandfather, but it was like this split screen, which that's a whole nother conversation in itself as to what I understand now of where we possibly go consciously whenever we pass. But anyways, they were in two different locations. And my dad,

Renea (23:30.585)
was telling me that he didn't know how to throw it up and I was throwing it up for him. So I had these two men who my dad was also an alcoholic. He was also an alcoholic, you know. And then they were showing me that I was also throwing it up for my son. And so it's like that happened. And then it transferred out of that into seeing different

visuals of my I saw my little girl on a playground and I was on my phone and I was texting texting and my little girl was playing and she kept coming up to me and saying mommy mommy and I was like mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm and I was on my phone texting texting and and like not seeing her not being present while she's playing and being a kid and You know and she was like you know

you're always on your phone. And I mean, she was little at the time, but you're always on your phone. Like, look at me, I'm playing. And then it kind of shifted out of that and went to my oldest son as a toddler sitting on the bed, looking at me and communicating some things that I won't share here because I want to keep that, you know, private. it's like I was feeling some of his deepest thoughts and feelings.

And yeah, it's like I get emotional now even years later thinking about that. But then I saw him in this little hologram playing basketball and explaining to me like how much he loves doing that. And then it switched to a whole nother scenario of me at my dad's funeral, my stepfather who raised me. And I was with one of my cousins and we were outside of the funeral home looking at each other, asking each other why we couldn't cry. Why?

why can't we cry, why can't we cry? Like I didn't grieve my dad for, I don't even know, years, I don't even know. And then it switched to another scenario to where I was at the grave of my sister-in-law. And she was, her life was taken away by her husband. And I was at her grave. And I was sitting there and I was saying, I'm so sorry that I haven't.

Renea (25:57.188)
come to visit you and I literally saw her feet, her flip flops with her little tattoos on the stars that she had tattooed on her feet and I saw them walk right up into me and I saw them right in front of me and she was kind of like laughing and she was like, it's okay and I was like, my gosh, you're here and she was like, I love, I said,

She was talking to me about butterfly. And I was like, you like the butterfly? Because I got a butterfly tattooed for her. a purple one, you know? And it's kind of symbolic of domestic violence and things of that nature. And she was like, yeah, I love the butterfly. And what I didn't know at that time, her mom had just gone to her grave and had put a little thing with butterflies on it as well.

So we were having this communication and one of the questions that I had asked her, was like, is Noah gonna be okay? And Noah is my oldest son. There's a lot of things in the subconscious there that I think that I was worried about or felt guilty about or was struggling with. And so he was a lot of what my journey was about as well. And so I just was asking her, is Noah gonna be okay? Is Noah gonna be okay? Does Noah know that he's loved? And she started laughing and she's like,

of he's gonna be okay. He's gonna have to catch his breath a little bit like you, but he's gonna be okay. And then all of sudden I transferred out of that and I was on this gravel road and my husband was in my ear. Again, I literally thought he was there. I was just saying, George, over and over again and he's like, it's okay, Ne. It's okay, Ne, just breathe, just breathe, just breathe. So there's a lot that happened in that and then when I was nearing the end of it,

I just started having these thoughts of, kept saying over and over again, you're okay without it. You're fun without it. You're enough without it. You don't have to have it. And I knew I was talking about alcohol. They love you even without it. That's not like, like I just kept, it's like I was having this narrative happen. And I mean, I was like bawling, snot coming out of my nose. I mean, it was just a lot of purging for me in different ways.

Renea (28:20.502)
but just this reoccurring thought of you're enough without it. Like you don't have to have that to be fun. You are so enough. Like everything is enough. And I mean, it's just so, it was a wide range of being in this bright light, literally God, what I felt now is God. I even had a hard time saying God when I came home because what I experienced was so far beyond what I was taught God was. And so then I came out of it and

What came after that? There was so much done in my brain. There was so much like healing of bringing stuff up that maybe I didn't want to look at. Just a sense of who I was, who I've told myself I was, who other people have told me I am. Seeing my grandfather and father was very pivotal for me.

even just throwing up in my toilet, just even seeing my dog. I mean, there was just so much, anyways, that's a lot of what happened in that journey for me. And, you know, within a 15 minute time span. Yeah.

Nancy (29:34.029)
Wow, so it was very quick.

Renea (29:37.281)
It is very, yeah, it is very quick. Now, for me, it may be I've lasted a little bit longer because of me not knowing how to breathe properly, but that the total, the totality of like the actual time that I was within the medicine was probably 15 minutes, 20 minutes tops, but it's like a lifetime. was just like this, I had no idea. Like it was just so.

life-changing for me, but the real work and everything really started after and a lot of realizations, which if you listen to the other podcast, you can kind of know what happened to me on the intuitive end of it, but there's a whole other side of things that happened for me as far as addictive patterns, as far as my reactions, how I reacted. I felt like I had never seen a bird in my life.

I felt like, I really felt like, where have I been? Have I been in the world? Like the grass looked greener. Like I noticed birds in my yard. I was like, have we had these birds in our yard? And my husband's like, yeah, the birds have been here. And I'm like, where have I been? I just felt so, there was just a hugely, I felt lighter in my body. I felt like I was in my body. And I'm telling you,

I mean, I was in the physical training, you know, I was very in touch with my body, but my gosh, I was not in touch with my, I was not feeling, I was doing everything to not feel, to be busy. And I felt like when I came home and I saw my kids, it was like, I saw them. I actually saw them. There was a lot of things to where I was very much pulled into the

present. My mind wasn't going to, well, what if and will win and how will this be or remember when this was or how was this? was like I might something happened in my brain to where I was right now, like right now. And I wasn't worried about like, this could happen. Or even if I was in the car and I'd be afraid of somebody else was driving, cause I had a really bad kind of thing with that. and it was like, no, that's

Renea (32:00.98)
It's okay. It's almost like anything that was really out of my control. I was not scared of or worried about it anymore. It was just totally foreign to me to feel that way. And it felt so good. I felt so alive, probably for the first time in my life. But yeah, I don't know if you want to jump in because there's so much.

Nancy (32:27.943)
Yeah, no, I have a question. At what point after that did you think to yourself, my gosh, I want to share this with everyone who's interested?

Renea (32:43.743)
Yeah, so that's where it's, I think I'm a pretty private person. I think for a lot of people, like immediately, they wanna share it with everybody. For me, it was more of, I need to process this. My kids didn't even know that I went through it. Obviously my husband did.

But again, like in the United States, this treatment is not available. Now there are some states now where they've decriminalized psilocybin and they're able to legally do these treatments, but this is mostly all done in Mexico or Peru or, know, because it's not legal now. There's a lot of work being done on that, but I definitely was aware of, you know, it's not like I can go broadcast this everywhere because I was still working through

how I'm perceived by others, know, how I perceive myself. I was so in the depths of what was happening with me that I didn't have that, I want to tell everyone. I was really just trying to process what the hell just happened, what was happening. And so I didn't really...

have that feeling of like, my gosh, I want to share this with everyone. That didn't happen now. There's a lot of people that do feel that way. I just wasn't one of them because I was so going inward at that time. Going inward in a way that I had never gone inward. A lot of questions that I had. I started working immediately with my integration coach.

Nancy (34:13.997)
Mmm.

Renea (34:31.991)
she helped me tremendously. And that is why I am a huge believer in integration. If I would not have had her, I, I have no idea how I would have been able to process all of this. It's she wasn't processing it for me. She was guiding me. She was, know, because with psychedelic medicine, yes. Were there some things that were immediately, I just didn't want anymore. Yeah. I'd like alcohol, you know, fast forward four years from then didn't want alcohol. again, came back.

didn't want to take the Adderall that I was prescribed ever again. I immediately was, and that's what a lot of these medicines do. They work with a lot of different receptors in the brain. It works by resetting the brain's reward system and kind of reducing withdrawal symptoms. It's almost, there's a lot I can go into it as far as what happens in the brain. And then going beneath that, like beneath the brain surface as to why I was going to that.

seeing my dad, my grandparents, it's very deep. They didn't heal from it. And so I, it passed on to me in some ways energetically, you know? And so there was a lot of things that I was, you know, being guided towards and working towards and my intuitive side that I had always had, but really pushed down because I was so afraid of things that just got blown.

way the F opened too. So there was so many things going on that I am so glad that I had support system. Like someone who really knew this space, who really understood these medicines, who really understood consciousness, which I had never even heard the word consciousness before I went into this mess. You know, states of consciousness like never even knew. And so, I didn't really start sharing until a bit later, you know,

months.

Nancy (36:26.709)
And at what point did you decide that you wanted to be an integration coach yourself?

Renea (36:34.141)
Yeah, so there's so much, I literally could probably do a whole series of things as to what happened leading up to this. But again, if you go back and you listen to the other podcast, there was a lot of things that happened for me in really acknowledging some abilities that I had. And there was a lot of working with that.

Like, what is this? Is this schizophrenia? Is this this? I mean, there's so many different things, right? And obviously it's not. But so how I got into this is I worked very closely with my integration coach, very closely. And then I started to dive into more of learning about these medicines and all of these things. And, but I started working on an intuitive level first, before I became a psychedelic integration coach. I started

meeting with military spouses who had lost their husbands. And I was receiving message, a lot of intuitive messages for a lot of people, you know, and in that, I have to talk in depth to people. really was just explaining and in the meantime of all of this happening, I would wake up in the middle of the night with these

downloads of information, downloads. I'm talking about like quantum physics thing. I have a whole, a whole notebook still of these downloads that were coming in, just about information about so many things about whether it was the medicine, whether it was this quantum physics. And I mean, I literally dropped out of geometry. Like I don't even know how I graduated. So this information that was coming in of things that I knew nothing about,

It was like undeniable. And so there was just so much information, almost like it was like I was making up for all this last time that I wasn't allowing this information to come in or whatever. But there was so many things that I was meeting with so many people on an intuitive level that, it just seemed natural because it, it was, kind of an opportunity that came up where my integration coach was like, you know, I think you'd be really great with this. You know, you're already talking.

Renea (39:02.993)
to so many people that have gone through the medicine on an intuitive level and there's a program that was recommended to me to go through and I was like, this feels right, this feels right. I was ready at that moment to really work with the medicine because I felt very connected to the medicine. I felt very connected to the universe, to God, whatever, all of the things and I...

or stood it on a level that I never thought that I would. And so I wanted to meet people where they were at. And I also think that because I came from a deeply religious upbringing, which I didn't think was religious at the time, you I thought non-denominational was not religious. You know, I had this whole saying of, I'm not religious, I just love God, which is a great saying, but I was still religious. I mean, I was, I raised an evangelical Christian missionary kid.

which I love a lot of aspects of that. But I understand, I feel like in so many different experiences and where I come from in my life, even from an addiction or substance abuse mindset of where I was in, whether it's not substance, whether it was like, if I'm gonna work out, I'm going to compete, I'm gonna be in magazines. I was always...

somebody that tipped the scale, whether it was something quote unquote good for me or not good for me. And I'm a Taurus. And if we go into that, yes, the planet Venus has, it's very much into, I love everything and I want everything. And so I understand myself better now, but I feel like I went through a lot of those things and I'm going to alchemize that by knowing how to meet people where they're at. There's a lot of people.

that when they are going into this medicine, there's a lot of fears based off of their belief system, based off of different things that are coming up for them. And I feel like I can work with people on all aspects, whether they're coming from Christianity, whether they're coming from not believing in anything, whether they're, I meet them where they're at and I'm able to help guide them from wherever they're at.

Renea (41:22.948)
You know, so I started doing this with integration coaching probably about three years ago, I would say. But I started with message, intuitive message probably about four years ago. So it took a little bit. Then I went through that program, which was really great. And it all just lined up to where I started working with an organization and a retreat center that I

really love and believe in and the set and setting is amazing, which is so important when you're going into plant medicine. Doctors, making sure all of those things check out. And then I started working with another organization solely for women called The HOPE Project and I work for Ambio Life Sciences. so, yeah, it's just, I don't know. That's how it all started.

Nancy (42:19.095)
So how do you determine what medicine somebody is going to receive? You had mentioned ibogaine and said that that's like a very long plant medicine journey opposed to the one that you initially started out with. But could you explain some of the differences between them? I feel like I've heard that ibogaine is the like the big daddy as far as like plant medicine is concerned.

Renea (42:48.518)
Yeah, yeah, totally. And so I don't determine what medicines they, the people go through. They're already, when they come to me, they have already made the choice to go through these medicines because at Ambio, you know, they administer Ibogaine and 5-Meo DMT. There's other locations where they, you know, administer or use Ayahuasca and then there's some others that use psilocybin. people, whenever they, whenever they land with me,

they have already decided for themselves. And that's another thing. It's very important. know, these treatments are not something to be forced into. It's not like a rehab to where it's like, we're sending you here and you're doing this. This is a very different kind of thing where people need, they should be having the willingness and the want to, to go through these medicines, you know. And so,

since I work with a lot of people doing Ibogaine and 5-Me-O D &T. So Ibogaine is, yeah, there's a reason why it's being so closely studied. And even in government, they're really working hard to have it be able to be used in a clinical setting in the United States. Like it's really a shame that a lot of people have to go out of our own country, especially

when we're seeing such a change in people and our first responders and military and people that were not wanting to be alive on this earth through substance abuse. You're talking about going through this medicine with somebody that has had a heroin addiction coming out of a treatment, never wanting it again. No withdrawal symptoms.

I really encourage people to dive into learning more about these medicines and what they're doing. But with Ibogaine in the brain, what it does is it works on this multiple neurotransmitter system all at once. So serotonin, the dopamine, opioid receptors. And what it does is it kind of interrupts addictive patterns by resetting the brain's reward system and reducing withdrawal symptoms. Okay, so

Renea (45:09.363)
like a lot of people describe it as giving the brain a chance to reboot. So cravings and these compulsive loops lose their grip. what do I, how I explain Ibogaine a lot of the time and the journey of it is a whole different story, but the actual, what it's doing in the brain is it like, if you picture your computer and let's say you have multiple tabs open on that computer. And then when you,

you know, it's kind of going in there and kind of deleting a lot of those unnecessary tabs that you did not know you had open for like years or months and creating more space in the computer. Or I'll use another example in your iPhone. Let's say you want to take a picture and then all of a sudden your phone says, I can't, you can't take a picture until you delete all these things. You have, you don't have any more storage in your phone.

Well, Ibogaine is kind of like going in and just like sucking up or defragging all of that useless things that you have stored in your phone. So in your brain, you think about all the people you see on a daily basis, all of the things we hear, TV, radio, all the things, all the places, all, you know, years and years of that. In my case, you know, 41 years of all these things.

we don't realize all of the things that our brain stores without us realizing it. And so for Ibogaine, it's been shown, and I can just say this for me, that it starts pulling out a lot of that unnecessary data and it can create this reboot in the brain. So you can hear a lot of people coming out of it they're like, I feel so clear. I have so much clarity. I was able to see my thoughts. didn't even like,

I wasn't, I didn't even know, like I could see my thoughts. had this pause moment before I would do anything. I never had that before. I never had this kind of like, I could hear and see my thoughts. It was just thoughts, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts, know, like, and so it was just such clarity. So that is how a lot of what, what Ibogaine does and what Ibogaine does as well is,

Renea (47:28.929)
you know, it's kind of like, again, it's resetting these brain pathways, you know, the experience is long, it's introspective, it can bring up like vivid life reviews, but for other people, maybe it's experienced more physically, you know, the experience of it is completely different than,

for all people. And what I say is a psychedelic and you interrupt me if I'm talking too much because I could talk all day about this. So for me as psychedelic is a lot like a human being. So if you think about a human being, we are a nervous system. We have a brain, we have a body, we are a human in that sense, we have a nervous system, all of those things. But we are also

Nancy (48:02.314)
No, my gosh, I keep going. I could listen all day.

Renea (48:26.348)
more than that. are also a con consciousness, know, we are something beyond the body. We are a soul or an essence or whatever you want to say, you know, it is my belief and understanding that we are something inside of a human body while also being a human body. It's the two merging together. Okay, so a psychedelic same thing.

And that's why I believe that it works so well with healing because it is very physical. It is working in the brain. Like if you were one of these people being studied in Ibogaine or in psychedelic, they're going to have a little cap on your head. They're going to have this huge screen in front of them. They're going to be monitoring what's lighting up in the brain. What is rerouting? What is this doing? You know, and prior they'll have brain scans as well to see what the, it would be for them.

typically before they go into medicine. So when doctors are looking at this screen and seeing what's happening to the brain while you're in medicine, they can't hear what you're hearing. They can't see what you're seeing. They can't feel what you're feeling. And so that tells me that a lot of the experience literally has nothing to do with what's actually being repaired in the brain. It really just doesn't. I mean, if you think about someone in surgery in the United States, they're out cold. They're, they're out.

And 99 % of the time we don't remember what's anything that happens in surgery, but you know when you come out of it, something was repaired, right? So someone could totally sleep in Ibogaine and you're going to see so many things happening in the brain if you're, you know, a doctor looking at this. So even if you don't have quote unquote experience in it, there is so much being done in the brain. But I do think that psychedelics are like a human and

and what we are because it brings in not only the physical repair all of what's happening in the brain, but it goes deeper than that. And it starts getting into the subconscious in a way of what our belief about ourself, the programs that we've allowed to run the or, you know, the emotional body.

Renea (50:44.993)
the spiritual body, all of the underneath. And so that's why I think it works so well because it's not just this talk therapy. It's not just a medication that's addressing the physical. It's also addressing things underneath that. And how that comes about, we don't know. I mean, you could have a giant koala bear talking to you, but there is some part of you that understands what that's addressing. And that's why we come out of it feeling lighter a lot of the time.

but also physically different. So that's why I think psychedelics work so well because it mimics to me a human in a lot of ways because it is both physical and non-physical. And so when those two things click and are repaired in some way, it's not saying it fixes you completely. What it does is it's like a huge field that's just like overgrown and you can't see the other side of that field. And the only way...

There's no other way for you to get to the other side except through that field. You can't go on the side. You have to get, but you can't see. So psychedelics are kind of like a lawnmower in my opinion, that mow this pathway through the middle and maybe pulls up some weeds on the sides too. So you can actually see where you're going. You can see the other side. You're not, you know, crowded with all of these weeds and things in your face. So it gives you some.

clarity to be like, oh, okay, I can do this. I see where I'm going now, you know? So that's kind of how a lot of what Ibogaine does. And I mean, you can do your research, but it's very much a defragger. It can bring a lot of us back to baseline to where maybe sometimes we don't feel super good, but we don't feel bad. We just are, which is a great place to be because then you get to decide like the thoughts that you have.

you get to decide. there's a lot of things that an integration coach can work with you on what's happening and navigating through that.

Nancy (52:53.773)
How do you asylum, still asylum? I didn't say that. Thank you. How does.

Renea (52:58.262)
Still a sign. Still a sign. I know.

Nancy (53:04.653)
psilocybin and ayahuasca differ from ibogaine and the 5-MeO-DMT.

Renea (53:14.857)
Yeah, they're all very different but have similarities, right? So I am more well-versed in ivagaine and 5-Meo DMT in psilocybin than I am with ayahuasca. ayahuasca does, it is a form of DMT, but it's different. With 5-Meo DMT, it is a very fast-acting psychedelic. It's found in certain plants like ayahuasca, but also in the secretion of the bufo alvarius toad.

So, it doesn't kill the toad, it's unlike Ibogaine, like Ibogaine's life review, 5MeO kind of dissolves again that sense of self giving this experience of oneness, like pure consciousness, or the infinite. It can last 15 to 45 minutes, but again, feeling like timeless and just like very transformative, but it often...

It's often described as like this ego dissolving, deeply spiritual reset, less about story, more about direct experience. There's so many things. then, so that one is a very ego dissolving medicine. And with psilocybin, I mean, gosh, these are just such long conversations, but psilocybin also works, all of these work very...

closely in the brain and in terms of rerouting. There's like, again, working with the serotonin or the dopamine or different receptors. And what it does is it to me, there's differences in how you experience the medicine, but a lot of what it does is similar. You know, it, to me, it's about opening new highways in the mind. So I explained it as like looking at a map.

of the brain. And maybe there's some roads we've been going down that have a lot of potholes, have a lot of speed bumps. They have a lot of, there's a wall, you have to stop, you have to get out of your car. There's this constant, it's just a hassle, right? What happens when we do a lot of these medicines? It starts to bring into our awareness and open up in our brain.

Renea (55:38.62)
new roads and you start to realize like, I don't want to take that exit anymore. I'm going to go on this one. Doesn't mean there's not going to be a speed bump, but like it's not going to give my car a flat tire. Like you, it starts opening up a whole new, these pathways, these neural pathways to where you're less likely to continue to go down those roads that are really bumpy. And so when that happens, the more and more you take that new pathway, the more and more you are, you're, you're

Nancy (55:52.481)
Hmm.

Renea (56:08.341)
creating new thoughts, new ways of thinking and being. The more you take that exit, the more the other one closes. And so these medicines, it's not so much like, yes, there are differences in how it works in the brain, but it's a common theme of this rerouting, right? Working in the neural pathways in different parts of the brain.

I feel for me, what's different is how you experience it. There's different ways of experience it. So like with Ibogaine, it's a very long lasting. 5-MEO DMT, very short. Acylocybin, depending on your dosage, could be long, could be short. Very similar to Ibogaine in the sense of like you're in a very vivid dream-like state. So you are aware that you're you.

Nancy (56:42.637)
Mmm.

Renea (57:04.308)
You're not not knowing who you are, but it is very much like a vivid dream like state. It's a different state of consciousness. Just like when you're asleep, you're in a very vivid dream, you know, but you're still aware. If you need to go to the restroom, you know you need to to the restroom. Whereas DMT can be really different. You're still aware that you're you.

but it's one of those things where it's more of a feeling. With psilocybin and ibogaine, it can be very much, although it can be a physical thing, is a lot of, of, it could be more visual. It could be more like scenarios. Whereas with DMT,

you can't, and this is not across the board, I'm just saying typically, you feel it more. It's an expression out of the body. So a lot of people, a lot of us who are very cerebral, maybe it needs to be expressed out of the body because we store a lot of that trauma in the body. So instead of having visuals and all of these things, maybe we are throwing that up.

Maybe we are crying that out. Maybe we are, know, there's different things happening. So these medicines, it's just in the way that I think it's experienced, but in the brain, it's doing a lot of the same things, just maybe on a different level. Ibogaine is one that is, it is very,

I would say for a lot of people, is a continuous thing. It stays working in the brain, especially if you have tools in place. Whereas maybe psilocybin, it's maybe not staying in the brain as long, and I could be saying this wrong. know scientists will able to tell you a lot of the ins and outs of it, but just from my experience. then, so with Ibogaine, is, a lot of time it can be a slow roll.

Renea (59:25.779)
It's still working in the brain. It's still working in the body. So I hope that answers some of the questions, but it's more to me and how it is experienced as opposed to what it's doing in the brain. There's a lot of similarities of what it's doing in the brain. It's just how it's experienced a lot of time that it's different.

Nancy (59:26.006)
Mmm.

Nancy (59:46.2)
So typically, because you said earlier that you use somebody as an example, and you said that they came out of an ibogaine experience, not wanting to use heroin anymore. Is it typical that one treatment is all you need, or do people come back for different treatments? Do some people start out with a plant medicine treatment that is a little bit like, you

like kind of how you did, you started out with the, and then graduated to something that is a little bit more intense.

Renea (01:00:16.368)
Right.

Renea (01:00:21.562)
Right. Yeah. So it's different for everyone. It really is different for everyone. There's people that will go through and I want to suggest to like, if someone is in or has been in addiction for quite a while, whether it's to opiates, whether it's to alcohol, whether it's to heroin, whether it's to Coke, whether it's, you know, Ibogaine, if you really look into it, it is one of, if not the best medicine to really, really

go in there and work on those different things. I encourage people to kind of look into that, do your research. Now for some people, I'll just use myself as an example, even me just going through 5-Me-O, coming out and not wanting to drink for four years, not wanting to take medicine. Medicine, mean like Adderall. I literally was like, I don't need it anymore.

And I'm not suggesting that for anyone, that's just how I felt for me. So what that did was it addressed probably the biggest pothole in my life to where I was able to navigate through all the other crap that I was not knowing or willing to navigate through. It got rid of for me the

biggest obstacle that I didn't even fully realize or acknowledge was in my way. And so then I was able to really put things into play and understand and see things in a different way. So for some people, it is like an onion. For instance, my cousin has been through Ivygain more than one time. And he talks about it in his podcast. And I will say it's team never quit podcast. yeah, he's had a lot of

Nancy (01:02:11.735)
We'll link it in the show notes.

Renea (01:02:15.035)
They've had a lot of people in their pockets talk about plant medicine, but there's some people that come out of it immediately knowing that even though there's a huge obstacle and some clarity, it's like they already know I'm going to be doing this again. And then there's some people who like me who are like, I don't need to go through this again right now. Now, if that ever came up to where I felt like it, I feel like I would know. But for some people, it helps get rid of a

couple of big blocks to where they're able to move through life in a different way, put tools into place, and then they're like, okay, I'm ready to pull a couple of more layers back, you know, whereas some people can definitely do that without the medicine, which I've been able to with a lot of tools.

But then I also did microdose for a while with psilocybin. And what that did was just further the work that was done in the brain. That's just very much like a vitamin thing. It wasn't like this psychoactive type of thing, right? There's a lot of misconception about microdosing, you know? It's not like you're tripping all the time. It's literally like you take a vitamin and what it does is instead of me getting pissed off about something, I found myself like, that's okay. That's all right. Like it was just furthering the work that was done. But so it's just, again,

Nancy (01:03:31.318)
Hmm.

Renea (01:03:36.516)
different across the board. Some people will do this treatment twice. Some people will never do it again. It's really paying attention to what's going on with you. So for me, again, it got rid of the the one to one alcohol at that moment and and and I was able to look and be in life in a different way. So I haven't felt the call to do Ibogaine or 5-in-the-O again. You know,

Nancy (01:03:47.789)
Hmm.

Nancy (01:04:03.981)
Mm.

Renea (01:04:05.328)
So, but for other people, literally, it's like, it's so crazy. They just immediately, as good as they feel, they're like, no, I know I'm gonna do this again. And they'll do it again in a year and literally like another layer. It depends, I think a lot on the medicine knows what you need and what you can handle at that time. And so it's very individual. Yeah.

Nancy (01:04:25.965)
And that leads to my next question because earlier when you were talking about when you arrived to your first plant medicine for your plant medicine experience that you were writing out your intentions was one of your intentions to quit drinking and quit taking Adderall. Because like you said, a lot of things came up

Renea (01:04:34.755)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy (01:04:55.649)
that you weren't expecting. And then you also just said the medicine knows what you need. So sometimes I think that maybe I just got the impression that you might go into it thinking, well, this is what I need. And the medicine's like, uh-uh, this is what you need.

Renea (01:04:55.811)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Renea (01:05:01.859)
Mm-hmm.

Renea (01:05:06.809)
Yeah.

It's absolutely like that. And that's what, you know, that's what we talk about, like expectation and intention and all of that. And so when I'm talking to my clients about intention, like when I was writing my list and I didn't know this at that time, intention is what we humanly know and think. But when we're going into this medicine, it's trusting that it's going to really get what we need.

And sometimes we think we know what we need, but we really don't know if we need it. Because if we knew what we needed, then maybe we wouldn't be doing it over and over and over again. And we would do the thing that we need. So it's really being open to, this is what I humanly, this is what I'm humanly communicating to myself and to the medicine, God, and whatever you want to say, that I am acknowledging with an understanding that I literally have no idea truly what it might be.

This is what I would like help with humanly and what I humanly can conceive or understand, but trusting that it could be something totally, totally different. So some of the things that I went in was I just didn't want to want to drink. I didn't have the thought of like, I never want to drink again. It was, I just don't want to want it. There were some things that I had always felt and I know this is super.

Nancy (01:06:23.949)
Mmm.

Renea (01:06:31.479)
you know, personal, but like I had always felt like I was abused in some way sexually, but I could never remember the physical act. had certain scenes and scenarios, but I could not remember. So it was, I was open to going there and I wanted to know if I was, that was one of them. I wanted to stop yelling and being angry and reactive. I wanted to stop thinking I wasn't enough.

Nancy (01:06:36.557)
you

Renea (01:07:01.263)
a self deprecation, you know, a lot of those things that I wrote out. But I totally, really, I had no idea if any of that. Now, a lot of people, when they have time to think about this, they might think, my journey's gonna be this way because I feel this way and I went through this. I didn't have any of that. I had no idea what it was gonna be like. Like I had no idea, a lot of what was addressed in it had nothing to do with what I wrote on that paper. Nothing to do with what I wrote on that paper.

Nancy (01:07:17.901)
you

Renea (01:07:30.415)
but in some ways it was all addressed. So, and let me explain this too. So what psychedelics like five of them, you can do is it works with like quieting the default mode network down. And what a lot of people don't know the default mode network is, is basically the brain's autopilot. So it's the part that keeps our sense of self together. Like it runs our inner chatter.

and it replays old stories about who we are. so psychedelics like 5-Me-O kind of quiet that network down. So instead of being stuck in the usual loops, the brain connects in new ways. So that's why a lot of people feel free from like old patterns or experience a sense of oneness. So if you take like a radio metaphor, like the default mode network is like your brain's favorite radio station.

Okay, and it plays the same songs over and over, which is funny because I used to have a song play over and over my head all the time. I felt like I had a band playing in my head. But so it's the default mode network is like that favorite radio station. It plays the same songs over and over your self talk, your worries, your identity and psychedelics turn down that station so you can hear all the other music your brain can play. Okay. And so it really helps to

Nancy (01:08:51.116)
Hmm.

Renea (01:08:54.071)
quiet, that default, like the same songs, the same thoughts, the same, this is who I am, this is who they said I am, this is how it, so it turns that down and it stops a lot of that noise. And so for me, even though that journey was like, a lot of it had nothing to do with what I wrote on that paper. I let that go. When I put that paper in the fire, I literally brain dumped it in there. I just, I left it there.

Nancy (01:09:21.229)
Mm.

Renea (01:09:23.18)
And then I let it be what it needed to be because even if I didn't understand how those things connected, there was a part of me that did understand. And it just started over time making so much more sense and connecting. And so I really like to work with people on intentions, what that means versus expectation. These are all really great things that integration can help with before you go into plant medicine. So yeah.

I know I can talk. I mean, there's so much to talk about.

Nancy (01:09:55.694)
I know. It's like a rabbit hole that you can go into. Yeah, for sure. So as much as I would love to talk to you about this all day, tell me some resources or places that people couldn't go to learn more about these plant medicines. Any websites, books, resources that people can go to to learn more on their own?

Renea (01:10:00.001)
Yes.

Renea (01:10:05.832)
Yeah.

Renea (01:10:20.107)
Yes. Yeah,

Right. So there is a book that I absolutely love called Consciousness Medicine by Francois Bourzotte. And I listened to it on audio and I read it. I absolutely recommend it to people that are curious about. There's also one by Michael Pollan and it's actually a Netflix documentary called, believe it's called How to Change Your Mind. Or if I'm not getting that right, but it's by Michael Pollan if you looked up on Netflix. That's another one.

you know, just even starting to, look up what Ibogaine does on, like medically, scientifically. I like to have people look at both sides, you know, not just this whole mystical, you know, trip type of thing of what people typically think of psychedelics. Look at what it's actually doing in the brain. Start looking it up. mean, the internet is like, I mean, it's at our fingertips to be able to look at like,

what it's doing medically for people. And also, you know, if you want to dive into the other side of it, like you'll hear people's experiences. But I also want to preface by saying when I tell my clients with podcasts, watching people that have gone through, even hearing my experience, you are getting a glimpse of somebody that has had time to process this. Okay. You know, has had time, has had integration.

So keep that in mind when you're watching podcasts of people talking about their experiences. A lot of the time when they're recounting it, it's been weeks, months, year to where they've had time to understand and process and work with somebody, you know, so keep that in mind. Joe Rogan has a lot of people on there. Sean Ryan has a lot of people on his podcast about that. You know, if people are curious about the retreat center that I work with,

Renea (01:12:18.24)
with its ambio life sciences. You know, they're doing great work. I also am on the board of the Phoenix Fund, which helps to fund people, know, first responders that want to go through the medicine. There's so many different things out there, but that book and that documentary, I think are really good to dive into. I mean, there's a lot, even if you just look up Ibogaine.

But look at both sides of it. Look at the science before you dive into the mystical trip because I feel like it can help a lot of people understand what it can do in the brain.

Nancy (01:12:59.167)
Yeah, especially people who, you know, might be resistant or not into the mystical side of it and are very scientifically, you know, wired in nature, logical in nature. And that way you can see the science behind it. I've heard just like, right.

Renea (01:13:04.875)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Renea (01:13:12.095)
Yep. Yeah.

Renea (01:13:18.111)
Yeah, because it's not mystical for everybody.

It's not for everybody, it's not this like, I traveled the cosmos and saw Jesus and my grandma and like, I was reborn. And you know, for some people it's like, you know, with I began experience for me is like I slept half the time, but I was having brain surgery. You know, it wasn't like a bunch of visuals or a lot of things. It's different for everybody. But I knew I was having some type of brain surgery. I mean, felt it. So yeah, that's why I always encourage looking at what it actually does in the brain as opposed to just focusing

on what people's experience are because then that can leave you feeling like, I did it wrong or it didn't work for me. And that's just not the case at all. For some people, it's not optimal maybe for you to have that kind of experience. So let's look at the physical evidence of what it's doing in the brain for a lot of people, as opposed to just focusing on the mystical or journey of it, you know?

Nancy (01:14:24.631)
Yeah, totally makes sense. Thank you so much for sharing your experience, your expertise, and it's always a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much, Renee.

Renea (01:14:33.6)
Yeah.

Renea (01:14:37.545)
my gosh. Thank you so much.